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  Forum: Coins - REPRODUCTIONS and FANTASIES
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  REPRODUCTIONS and FANTASIES     Sat 13th May 2006 08:37:11

Plantagetnoble

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There has been a debate in the philately section of both the American and the British forums about the terminology appropriate to bogus or forged items, reprints, etc etc. There are lots of terms available.
I have suggested that this should be widened to include a uniform approach for coins and banknotes. The following is a slightly adapted quotation:

” I prefer the word FANTASY to bogus because it is not harsh (after all, the seller is trying to sell it), and because (as some may not appreciate) FANTASY is familiar in French and other languages, whereas Bogus is not (unless it is well known to French stamp collectors, like tete-beche in England) . Similarly, REPRODUCTION is kinder than forgery, familiar in other languages, and covers what stamp-collectors admit exist: merely possible forgeries, and various categories of reprint. You cannot demand that a seller knows exactly what he has got, and in some cases it is debatable, even if the origin is known, for example Heligoland stamps (with Queen Victoria) produced by the original Berlin printers for sale to collectors, and most Maria Theresa Thalers (many produced in London, Rome, or quite recently in Vienna ).

There is nothing to stop any seller adding additional information to the basic word, which I think in many cases should be FANTASY (i.e. never genuine) or REPRODUCTION (of a genuine item).

It seems to me that what is being looked for here is a system which :

1) Will protect buyers
2) Can be understood by buyers (and sellers) who are not experts
3) Can be understood by buyers (and sellers) whose first language is not English (and not the language of the seller).
4) Preferably, a consistent system for stamps, coins, and banknotes (particularly because:
a) some sellers/buyers have at least two of these categories
b) the issuing country is often the same, e.g. Nagorno Karabakh, although the category appropriate to their stamps, coins and banknotes may well be different -- the stamps are apparently in local use at least, but probably not the coins and banknotes. )
5) A system which can reasonably be made international and compulsory would be desirable, and this needs to be simple.

FOR THE ABOVE REASONS I suggest that the words (in English or French) FANTASY and REPRODUCTION should be made compulsory in the naming of any item whatsoever to which they are appropriate. Certainly further descriptions in any language could be added.
But this is SIMPLE and easily learnt by everybody.

It must be accepted that LOCAL stamps and TOKENS/JETONS, also NOTGELD/billets & monnaies DE NECESSITÉ exist, and are not fantasies.

Sellers could apply to delcampe for any other exceptions they consider need to be specified. “

Any comments from coin and banknote collectors ?


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  REPRODUCTIONS and FANTASIES     Wed 14th Jun 2006 16:27:46

Francophile

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In response to Plantagetnoble [99% (173x)] (Closed accountClub+ member: Bronze  :
There has been a debate in the philately section of both the American and the British forums about the terminology appropriate to bogus or forged items, reprints, etc etc. There are lots of terms available.
I have suggested that this should be widened to include a uniform approach for coins and banknotes. The following is a slightly adapted quotation:

” I prefer the word FANTASY to bogus because it is not harsh (after all, the seller is trying to sell it), and because (as some may not appreciate) FANTASY is familiar in French and other languages, whereas Bogus is not (unless it is well known to French stamp collectors, like tete-beche in England) . Similarly, REPRODUCTION is kinder than forgery, familiar in other languages, and covers what stamp-collectors admit exist: merely possible forgeries, and various categories of reprint. You cannot demand that a seller knows exactly what he has got, and in some cases it is debatable, even if the origin is known, for example Heligoland stamps (with Queen Victoria) produced by the original Berlin printers for sale to collectors, and most Maria Theresa Thalers (many produced in London, Rome, or quite recently in Vienna ).

There is nothing to stop any seller adding additional information to the basic word, which I think in many cases should be FANTASY (i.e. never genuine) or REPRODUCTION (of a genuine item).

It seems to me that what is being looked for here is a system which :

1) Will protect buyers
2) Can be understood by buyers (and sellers) who are not experts
3) Can be understood by buyers (and sellers) whose first language is not English (and not the language of the seller).
4) Preferably, a consistent system for stamps, coins, and banknotes (particularly because:
a) some sellers/buyers have at least two of these categories
b) the issuing country is often the same, e.g. Nagorno Karabakh, although the category appropriate to their stamps, coins and banknotes may well be different -- the stamps are apparently in local use at least, but probably not the coins and banknotes. )
5) A system which can reasonably be made international and compulsory would be desirable, and this needs to be simple.

FOR THE ABOVE REASONS I suggest that the words (in English or French) FANTASY and REPRODUCTION should be made compulsory in the naming of any item whatsoever to which they are appropriate. Certainly further descriptions in any language could be added.
But this is SIMPLE and easily learnt by everybody.

It must be accepted that LOCAL stamps and TOKENS/JETONS, also NOTGELD/billets & monnaies DE NECESSITÉ exist, and are not fantasies.

Sellers could apply to delcampe for any other exceptions they consider need to be specified. “

Any comments from coin and banknote collectors ?




Dear Plantagetnoble,

This seems to me a very good idea, and nobody else here seems to be opposed to it.

Frank
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